WOF:       We’re used to seeing new CDs from you, but this is what, your 7th book? Apparently this writing gig is working for you! Do you think you’ll keep it up?

SANDI:    Y’know, writing has been one of the hardest things for me to do, but honestly, it’s been one of the most cathartic. It’s helped me along in my journey a little bit. This whole Layers thing . . . it’s just one of those in-process ideas. I know a lot of times when women speak at Women of Faith, it’s about something that they’ve passed through and resolved; this is just kind of out there. But I am finding that is a lot of freedom that comes with being truthful and honest about where I am with my journey and why those layers are there in the first place. So it’s really been a very interesting kind of process for me.

WOF:       How does the creative process of recording a CD compare with the creative process of writing a book?

SANDI:    For me, writing is kind of like talking to somebody. I’m not an academic like Marilyn or somebody who could teach classes on everything. I write like I’m talking to you, so it’s almost as if I’m journaling and then the wonderful editors make sense of that and put it all together.

A couple of weeks ago Sheila was talking about the new book she’s writing and she had this concordance, and this thesaurus, and this aid, and all these things you need to write your book. I just looked at her like a deer in the headlights because that’s definitely not me. I just write what’s in my head and what I’m going through.

WOF:       Tell us about the title “Layers.” What does that refer to?

SANDI:    Layers was a title for this idea long before I had any of the meat to go with it. As I began to think about my own life and as God is bringing healing to the different layers of my life… as you peel that onion or artichoke or whatever you have to peel a few layers to really get down to the sweet part of it.

When you’ve been wounded as a child, or if you’ve gone through something difficult, the first instinct we have humanly is to protect ourselves. We begin to build up defenses – which is not a bad thing. What becomes difficult for somebody is when those defenses, those barricades, those layers stop fulfilling their original purpose. Now they’re not just keeping things from coming in, they’re keeping the real “us” from coming out. In a sense, those layers become toxic.

For me, I had to really begin to understand why those layers came into place in my own life. Sexual abuse was really when many of those layers began. And layers may look different on different people. For some, it might be food or extra layers of skin (literally); for some it might just be that compulsive busy-ness that keeps us so busy we don’t stop to think about why we need to be in perpetual motion. Or relationships, or alcohol, or one too many committees, or whatever it may be. Those layers may look different, but often they are born out of some type of woundedness that happens in our lives.

WOF:       You talk about the importance of expressing our needs. That’s a problem for a lot of women, especially. Why do you think that is and what can we do about it?

SANDI:    It’s been a really interesting struggle for me to learn the importance of expressing our needs. I go back, for myself, to being a victim of sexual abuse; choice is taken away from you. When you have choice taken away,  you’re in a position where you cannot cry out, you cannot express “I need my parents.” You can’t express your need for help or protection. So rather than learning to trust, we learn to distrust . . . not just other people; God, as well.

I know for my husband, when his father died when he was 11 he had an uncle innocently say to him, “Cry now, because you can’t cry anymore after today.” So he learned how not to express what he was feeling. There may be something in each of our lives that wasn’t meant to create that response in us, but yet it did. So we’ve learned it’s not safe to express our feelings; it’s not safe to express our needs.

I’m learning that. An example that happened just a few weeks ago: I came home after 2 - 3 days on the road. I was just in kind of an “I need my family” mode. When I walked in the door, one son was out the door to a friend’s house, my husband was in the back yard, working on the yard . . . there wasn’t anybody there to greet me. I play this scenario out every week and it never bothers me, but that particular day I really got my feelings hurt. So I stormed around the kitchen a little bit and then I thought I’m going to risk saying how I feel. So I went outside to my husband (who was very glad to see me) and said, “You know, I know it’s really stupid, but I got my feelings hurt because nobody was there to greet me.” Just the simple act of letting go of those words made for a very pleasant evening for us. In years past I think I would have hung on to that and made everybody miserable by trying to say things passive-aggressively. It would have mushroomed into something that it was not meant to be. I’m learning in my life that it’s OK to risk. Even if the other person doesn’t understand, it’s still good for me.

WOF:       Tell us about your “high-low” dinner table conversations – and why you think the “low” part is so important.

SANDI:    As I look back, I think this was born out of me saying “How can I create an environment for our kids so they will talk to us when things are good and when they are not good?”

So when they were really little and we’d sit around the dinner table, we’d go around and say “What was your high/low for the day?” It encouraged everybody to celebrate something good that happened to them and feel good about that. But it also gave all of us permission to say “I didn’t like this about my day” and for that to be OK.

Now, when they were 5, 6, or 7 years old those things were like, “We had tater tots for lunch today and they were mushy.” But as they got older it became, “I heard a friend say something about me today to another friend that wasn’t true and that really hurt my feelings.” I think you have to create an environment for the people in your life so they know it is safe to express how they feel. We still do high/low today. Now it’s like, “Oh, my roommate and I don’t get along at college.” It’s fun to hear the other kids jump in and say “Well, I know who that is and they don’t get along with anybody, so it’s not about you, it’s about him.” It’s really interesting to hear the kids talk amongst themselves as adults.

WOF:       You mentioned that you’re now “choosing” to sing. That may surprise a lot of people – haven’t you been doing that for years?

SANDI:    When an internal change happens in our life, it may not look different to anybody on the outside, but to us it is dramatically different. I guess I just always felt that it was expected of me to sing. It never felt to me like it was my choice; it always felt like it was expected.

As I began to assert my choice and checked myself in to the New Life Clinic for a couple of weeks, one of the first things I said to my therapist (boy, she put up with a lot from me!) was “I’m not singing. Don’t ask me to sing. This is my time for me to do what I need to do and I’m not doing this for anybody else.” She calmly looked at me and said, “That’s fine; that’s no problem. You have the choice to do whatever you need to do.” For 2 weeks people would ask me about singing and I would just kind of ignore them.

When someone is getting ready to graduate, they have a family meeting where everyone goes around and gives the gift of words to the person who is getting ready to leave. Then the person who’s leaving gives a gift of words back to the group. That was the first time that the gift I wanted to give them was a song from my heart. I sang for them, ‘Precious Lord, Take My Hand’ and I know it didn’t really look different to people on the outside but to me . . . I wasn’t afraid that people were taking things from me. Now I’m giving that time as a gift. I receive as much – or probably way more – than I ever give. I see it as my choice now, knowing that if there are times I don’t feel well or that I can’t do that, I have the choice to say, “You know what, I just don’t feel up to that today.” Somehow, when you know you have a choice to not do something, it gives you a greater sense of freedom to go ahead and do it.

WOF:       Is it possible to ever shed all our layers?

SANDI:    That’s a really good question. To be really heavy for a moment, I think especially when abuse is involved, there’s something that has been taken from you that you can never get back. That innocence that was ripped away is a piece of us that we will never get back. I liken it very much to someone who had a leg amputated. They will never get that back. Does that mean it diminishes the quality of life? Absolutely not. But just as there is phantom pain with a limb that is missing, I think there is emotional phantom pain that we will probably carry with us.

I believe with all my heart that God makes all things new. He can take the worst of circumstances and turn them into something greater than we could ever, ever imagine. But I do think there’s always a piece of our woundedness that we will carry with us. The difference is, when God becomes greater than our woundedness, then that woundedness takes its appropriate place and doesn’t drive our life. It just becomes a piece of our story.

Is there victory in those layers? Absolutely.

WOF:       Tell us what you mean by the motto “Every day is my birthday!”

SANDI:    That was born out of the mouth of Anita Renfroe. (She’s such a spectacular woman!) I got to thinking about that idea; my birthday was not too long after I heard her say that. On my birthday, I get up whenever I want to and don’t feel guilty about it. I maybe go have lunch with a friend without feeling like I’m taking away from my family. I might let the laundry sit in the washer just a little bit longer and not feel guilty about it. I might take a nap or read a book or go have a pedicure and do things that nurture myself without feeling guilty about it. I thought, “Man! I must spend 364 days out of the year moving through the day feeling guilty about everything.”

I want to move through my day like when I do when it’s my birthday. Not ignoring the needs of the people around me (I’m not that kind of person), but to give myself permission to nurture myself. To give myself permission to do things for me and to take care of me as a woman. Then I come back a better mom; I come back a better wife. If I could just remember how I feel on my birthday, and sort of move through those other 364 days with that same sort of freedom – I would really like that.

WOF:       What are you looking forward to in the next six months/year?

SANDI:    One of the things, most definitely, is Women of Faith. I probably make my family sick about it, but they all love Women of Faith so much that we all talk about it. I love being somewhere where I can just be totally myself. It is the greatest gift. I look forward to my weekends with my girlfriends very, very much. I am DEFINITELY looking forward to the Women of Faith cruise to Alaska – my husband and I are going, and that’s it! So we’re very excited about being together.